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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:02 pm 
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Fellow Moai
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Location: The Big Smoke, The 6ix, The T-Dot, Hogtown
Can you believe this?!? Tiki is such a mash-up of so many things, it has become its own thing. An American thing, I might add. Anyhow, we need to be on guard in our own cities!

http://www.gazettetimes.com/albany/business/tiki-bar-stirs-up-cocktail-of-accusations/article_910fbb5c-afd9-51fc-bf85-4b22f8a04e64.html

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Matato'a
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It was only a matter of time before the Hippie came after tiki.
Snowflakes Unite!

I'm going to open up a restaurant called 'Fucking Millenials' and serve nothing but Tuna Noodle Casserole, Apple Pie and ass kickings.
One bathroom, no toilet and mandatory 25% gratuity added to every check.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Honui Moai
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Location: Deep down the rabbit hole
Personal Statement: Ouch!
Why can a guy named Davidson run an Irish pub and not open a tiki bar?

They make him apologize too?

It's a generation of Charlie X cross bred with Anthony Fremont:

Quote:
[Opening Narration] Tonight's story on The Twilight Zone is somewhat unique and calls for a different kind of introduction. This, as you may recognize, is a map of the United States, and there's a little town there called Corvallis. On a given morning not too long ago, the rest of the world disappeared and Corvallis was left all alone. Its inhabitants were never sure whether the world was destroyed and only Corvallis left untouched or whether the village had somehow been taken away. They were, on the other hand, sure of one thing: the cause. A monster had arrived in the village. Just by using his whine, he took away the automobiles, the electricity, the machines - because they displeased him - and he moved an entire community back into the dark ages - just by using his mind. Now I'd like to introduce you to some of the people in Corvallis, Oregon. This is Mr. Fremont. It's in his tiki bar that the monster resides. This is Mrs. Fremont. And this is Aunt Amy, who probably had more control over the monster in the beginning than almost anyone. But one day she forgot. She began to sing aloud. Now, the monster doesn't like singing, so his mind snapped at her, turned her into the smiling, vacant thing you're looking at now. She sings no more. And you'll note that the people in Corvallis, Oregon, have to smile. They have to think happy thoughts and say happy things because once displeased, the monster can wish them into a gluten free bistro or change them into a grotesque, walking horror. This particular monster can read minds, you see. He knows every thought, he can feel every emotion. Oh yes, I did forget something, didn't I? I forgot to introduce you to the monster. This is the monster. His name is Anthony Fremont. He's six years old, with a cute little-boy face and blue, guileless eyes. But when those eyes look at you, you'd better start thinking happy thoughts, because the mind behind them is absolutely in charge. This is the Twilight Zone.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:10 am 
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Fellow Moai
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:50 pm
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Location: Atlanta, GA
Personal Statement: I'm pro-metric.
Critiki had a great blog post about "culturally thoughtful" tiki not too long ago. I think their take on it was done well.

https://news.critiki.com/2017/05/25/on- ... tful-tiki/


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:37 am 
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Kere
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Location: Kahikiville, OH-iO
Personal Statement: One!... Two!... FIVE!
crimany.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:14 am 
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Tagata Ao
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Location: The apartment above Gunsmoke's James Arness.
Personal Statement: cromagnon ohio thugs
Quote:
Davidson said that residents of Polynesian ancestry, including those with the Oregon State University Asian and Pacific Cultural Center, complained about a combination of factors such as the use of a Hawaiian name, traditional iconography displayed in a cartoonish way, and how plastic leis were handed off to customers.

Let's break down how Cloud Davidson tactically handled this situation.

Appeal to Reason -----> Apology -----> Capitulation

This was a veritable clinic on what not to do.
Just one blunder after another.

I got some lulz out of this, though.
Quote:
The Hapuna Kahuna Tiki Bar & Kitchen — until recently, the location was Cloud & Kelly’s Public House, an Irish pub — will close Sunday and reopen Sunday night as an extension of the Downward Dog, an adjacent bar that Davidson owns. Hapuna Kahuna started its short run on June 22.

Everyone knows that this is a Yoga position. So, watch for the inevitable raising of ""problematic"" concerns over cultural appropriation from the Oregon State University Indian Students Association.

Dude should just stick to slinging Guinness, corned beef and Lucky Charms.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:32 am 
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Honui Moai
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Location: Pineapple Lounge
Personal Statement: Kungaloosh!
This is depressing. If I was a less trusting individual, I'd say this sounds suspiciously like a business decision spun as a sanctimonious press release.

I have no issue with ongoing discussions of cultural appropriation, sensitivity, privilege, etc., because strong defenses of tiki (like humuhumu's thoughtful post) exist, and apparently need to be aired. But this guy instantly backing down like a chickenshit sets a precedent - we're not expected to listen or compromise; we're expected to cease & desist. Not in my basement.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:46 am 
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Honui Moai
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Location: Deep down the rabbit hole
Personal Statement: Ouch!
Davidson. He should stick to slinging herring with aquavit shots.

McDavid could sell mutton pie and whiskey.

Corned beef is Jewish, appropriated by Irish Catholic immigrants to northeastern 'Merkin cities.

I am just a bit more sensitive than normal after the Thursdaynight mocking of Appalachian Scots-Irish immigrant frontier culture and male pattern baldness at Ohana 2017.

Sent from somewhere exotic

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:12 am 
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Kere
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Location: Kahikiville, OH-iO
Personal Statement: One!... Two!... FIVE!
i, for one, am outraged that the Roman Empire co-opted ancient Greek culture.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:35 am 
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Protector of the Golden Witco
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Location: I'm over here now!
Personal Statement: LIGHTS OUT!
Johnny Dollar wrote:
i, for one, am outraged that the Roman Empire co-opted ancient Greek culture.

"...but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?"

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:48 am 
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Fellow Moai
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Location: Damascus, MD
Personal Statement: Hit it on the one.
Professor Pineapple wrote:
This is depressing. If I was a less trusting individual, I'd say this sounds suspiciously like a business decision spun as a sanctimonious press release.

I have no issue with ongoing discussions of cultural appropriation, sensitivity, privilege, etc., because strong defenses of tiki (like humuhumu's thoughtful post) exist, and apparently need to be aired. But this guy instantly backing down like a chickenshit sets a precedent - we're not expected to listen or compromise; we're expected to cease & desist. Not in my basement.



It is a business decision, and not a surprise. The reality is that most businesses know that if the headhunters come for you, it's better to capitulate. The people that do this stuff have mastered social media. Facebook, instagram, yelp.....all pathways to stirring up the resistance. Never mind that the majority of the people contributing to the uproar have never been there (and likely don't live nearby either), the campaign will continue until the business is closed and the appropriate self-flaggelant apology has been issued. It's an effective model, unfortunately.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:22 am 
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Fellow Moai
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Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
It is all so ridiculous... The Tiki Culture is not based on factual island cultures, but the American 1940-50s version of what they saw as exotic...
I guess we will have to be shutting down Halloween haunted houses because the portrayal of a witch offends the Wiccans?
and the whole discussion of preparing foods from other cultures is just plain stupid.
None of the great Tiki Bars would have ever existed if put under that lens...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Honui Moai
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Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:50 am
Posts: 2022
Location: The Aloha Temple of Baby Smiles (TX)
Personal Statement: I got yr Barbie zucchini
There was a hoopla a while back in Austin about the Tex-Mex chain Torchy's. Protests, graffiti on their buildings, etc.
How DARE a non-Mexican sell bastardized Mexican food - in a city that has dozens/hundreds of Tex-Mex restaurants owned by REAL Mexican-Americans (and dozens/hundreds owned by NON-Mexican descent people)!
:roll:
If you have to pass a DNA test to own/run a business in America, we're gonna see a looooootta businesses close down.
Go to the Mexican-American owned place instead if you want! You are allowed!
Who gets to draw the line anyway?
So if a European-descent person can't own a Mexican restaurant, can a Mexican-descent person own an Italian restaurant? Can a Guatemalan own a Mexican restaurant? The American Dream, anyone?
Should Julia Child be dug up and burned because she made a living teaching French cooking - and she was - *GASP* - not French? :shock:

And can a Hawaiian person have a tiki bar that has Papua New Guinea and Maori art in it, 'cause it's just going to be a Hawaiian bar and not a Tiki Bar if not.

Yeah, I'm over that stuff. We are [mostly] beautiful mutts who love the purebreeds AND the mutts.

And it's not like the Oregon guy went and stole Hawaiian land himself to open his place, fer cryin' out loud. He just [badly] used Hawaiian-ish (and other!) iconography to open a meh spot. The market would have taken care of it. It didn't need The Self-Appointed Arbiters of Righteousness rising up and impaling his head on a spike.

No one could accuse the FOM (or Tiki Central folks) of not loving Polynesian cultures. We might cross the line in the eyes of an actual Papua New Guinea native who actually believes in the spirit power of the carvings......that he carved to sell to tourists.......Wait! No! I'm not even gonna say that!! Seriously!! :roll:
But the old stuff - we all treat that with great respect.
And the FOM show our respect of places like Rapa Nui with our raising money for scholarships for the young people there who wish to study subjects that will protect their island's culture.

We might cross the line of silly, but we strive not to cross the line of outright rude/totally unacceptable.
The Samoan family who owned The Tiki saw all of our Room Crawl silliness and they honored the FOM for our having donated in their name to victims of the tsunami damage. They were not horrified that our men wore lava-lavas. They LOVED that fact.

Tiki Vee, I'm buying stock in your restaurant.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Matato'a
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Formikahini wrote:
Should Julia Child be dug up and burned


Yes, but only for the entertainment value.
And if that sentence offends you, you've joined the wrong online forum.
( "you" in the general sense - not "you" in the Formikahini sense )

Formikahini wrote:
Tiki Vee, I'm buying stock in your restaurant.


Shares are going fast...operators are standing by!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Tagata Ao
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Location: The apartment above Gunsmoke's James Arness.
Personal Statement: cromagnon ohio thugs
Staredge wrote:
The reality is that most businesses know that if the headhunters come for you, it's better to capitulate.

I respect your opinion, but disagree.

Chick-fil-A is still open and thriving.
Duck Dynasty is still on A&E.
The Hapuna Kahuna Tiki Bar & Kitchen is closed.

The results speak for themselves.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Matato'a
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CowtownKahuna wrote:
I respect your opinion, but disagree.

Chick-fil-A is still open and thriving.
Duck Dynasty is still on A&E.
The Hapuna Kahuna Tiki Bar & Kitchen is closed.

The results speak for themselves.


Bullshit CK...BULLSHIT and you know it.

There is no way Duck Dynasty is still on TV.

I absolutely refuse to believe that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:11 pm 
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Tagata Ao
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Personal Statement: cromagnon ohio thugs
http://www.aetv.com/shows/duck-dynasty

Read 'em and weep, Vee.
:pieface:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Matu'u
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Location: Queequeg Chapter (NH)
Personal Statement: Conch ceviche.
I feel like we don't know the whole story about Hapuna Kahuna and probably never will. Given that there was mixed opinion even among Polynesian community members it seems like it would have been possible to tweak the concept in some manner that would be a gesture to critics and sensible business. The objections themselves don't seem to have come with threats of a boycott or picketing or anything that would motivate a business to do something more extreme. Maybe the owner just felt strongly about not offending a culture he clearly cares about and wanted to do something more definitive.

The bio of the owner sounds like someone steeped in Oceania but possibly not well informed about Poly-Pop tiki beyond the cocktails. I think where he may have stumbled is by having a concept that quite frankly wasn't enough of a tiki fantasy and the objections came up not because it was a tiki bar but because it was perhaps trying too hard to be a Hawaiian bar.

Honestly it is kind of ironic if that's correct.

Cultural appropriation is going to come up around tiki forever and I try to be thoughtful about that. Having "taken" something from these cultures, even if it is just what we call our little club here, does require that we give something back. And we do. I see that as the decent thing to do and, to borrow from another culture, good karma.

I work on a university campus so I know that "tiki" offends someone, somewhere, you cannot please all of the people all of the time. I don't feel hostility towards those people, they feel how they feel and if I am ok with my own decisions I can live with that. The genuine affection that exists between us and people like Jimmy Faatauvaa and his family tells me that we're doing something right even if we are a bunch of goofballs.

Intent matters and I don't think it is politically correct to ask ourselves if what we are doing would needlessly offend a reasonable person and I think we need to thoughtfully consider that when we use elements of Polynesian languages, symbols, etc. I like that we tend to use original art and design that cannot be confused as an attempt to make a direct representation of real cultural figures.

-Rev

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Fellow Moai
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Personal Statement: Hit it on the one.
CowtownKahuna wrote:
Staredge wrote:
The reality is that most businesses know that if the headhunters come for you, it's better to capitulate.

I respect your opinion, but disagree.

Chick-fil-A is still open and thriving.
Duck Dynasty is still on A&E.
The Hapuna Kahuna Tiki Bar & Kitchen is closed.

The results speak for themselves.


I think the key difference is that DD and Chik Fil A were both on a national level. Both could withstand a boycott or bad press just due to the sheer numbers of fans in the background. Chik Fil A did lose some contracts, if I recall. You also have, in both cases, a strong Christian support group that would step up and help cushion some of the blow. Hapuna was on their own.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:08 am 
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Tourist
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America is a tacky mish-mash of interpretations of other cultures. That is part of our own culture. Tiki is polynesian, in the same way raman is Japanese. It wasn't meant to give you an authentic experience. It's Route 66 Americana.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:12 am 
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And I notice no one complained when it was an Irish Pub"

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:27 am 
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Honui Moai
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Personal Statement: Kungaloosh!
Well said, Rev.

I'm still skeptical about the owner's motivations, but you are right: no one knows the full story, and his heart may well be in the right place. What irks me is the normalization of perceiving a tiki bar as existentially "wrong," leading to its closure. It's already too difficult to keep these joints around, you know?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:50 am 
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Fellow Moai
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Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
TikiJack is right...what we consider Tiki is not authentic at all, and probably doesn't even strive to be...It is a mishmash of all sorts of things, and a romantic view of the exotic. We should never try to hold places like Hapuna Kahuna or even Kahiki or Trader Vic's against the lens of being culturally correct to any particular island nation...that is not at all what it is about...it is a complete American fabrication...a romantic amalgam...
If people was authentic you will have a lot of fish and no booze.
I think the complainers about that restaurant were off base...and maybe being islanders, they do not understand the American Cultural Institution of the Tiki Bar...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Matato'a
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CowtownKahuna wrote:
http://www.aetv.com/shows/duck-dynasty

Read 'em and weep, Vee.
:pieface:



CK man, I don't even know where to start...
You do know that Duck Dynasty is a complete and utter sham and just proves how stupid the American public are as a whole - or cultural hole, as I like to call it.

People love the "downhome folksy aww shucks" charm of these simple folk who done made good, but none of it holds up under even the slightest scrutiny.

I don't know what their actual names are and I'm not about to go and look it up but lets just start here:

Beardface Dumpster Juice...this guy...

Image

is actually this guy

Image
nice mullet

and this guy

Image
nice highlights

Then you have Nicklelback Ballad Song Lyric

You know...this guy....

Image

Who is actually this guy...

Image

Anybody remember the pictures I posted of my old boss and his family on the beach...all wearing white...remember how downhome and backwoods he seemed? Right, he didn't. Cos he isn't. Not even a little. And neither are these guys.

Except maybe Lynchy McRacist Noose...you know....this old grumpy fuck....

Image

That dude looks like he actually looks like he bathes in month old bathwater to save money.

But the rest of them?

Image

Marketing my friend. Plain and simple. Good old fashioned Madison Avenue Mad Men Don Draper boning his secretary across a mahogany desk advertising. That shit is about as real as a GoBot ( remember GoBots? )
And you my friend have fell for it.
Hook, line and derrrrp.

Rich yuppies can't sell duck huntin' products. But rednecks can.
Let's take this very well educated and affluent family of successful business men and woman and lets gussie them down for TV and lets rake in some good old fashioned advertising bucks.

Oh CK....you beautiful yet blind buckeye.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Kere
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Location: Kahikiville, OH-iO
Personal Statement: One!... Two!... FIVE!
Tiki Vee wrote:
buckeye blind

noo band name

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